[fletchmountaindog]

hi guys...our 2005 vectra 1.9cdti(65000 miles) is draining my wallet...car is hardly moving when starting off then the turbo kicks in and it flys...car broke down 4 months ago when all the rockers broke. Luckily no valves bent. Since then it's had all new rockers,gasket,water pump,timing kit with belts,EGR valve,inlet manifold.Exhaust system checked and all the pipes around the manifold etc checked by mechanic. Only thing mechanic can think of is maybe a problem with the crankshaft. Cost so far is £1200. Took it to vauxhall and they came up with same diagnostic of "AIR INTAKE". This cost another £75. Phoned me today to say that they wanted to do 8hrs labour to pull out the timing and manifold again to double check it all to make sure at a cost of £688 and then to tell me that that may not fix it and it may be an open cheque book sorta problem.....so knowing it's cost me £1275 before they start work plus the £688 to MAYBE fix it and i still have to get the front left wheel bearing fixed and the 2 back bushes i,m thinking it's time to BIN the car...was only offered £3k 6 months ago for a trade swap...any suggestions what may be the problem????oh + there was already an alternator put in last year some time. This car has broken my heart along with the 2002 Renault Laguna i had to bin before xmas for £250 at a scraper =( ....ANY advice would be welcome and thanks in advance

[Leeky]

Is it really smoking under load? Is it a 120 or 150 bhp model engine?

I would check the vacuum hoses in the engine bay. I'm at a loss as to how a mechanic could diagnose the crankshaft as being the issue. If it was distorted, or otherwise warped the engine would be out of harmonic rythum (sp) and therefore idle and rev like a bag of nails. It'll also kill the shell bearings inside a few miles due to excessive wear and then start knocking like hell. So it isn't that, and it certainly doesn't take 8 hours to do a cambelt change or remove the manifold. Book time is around 2-2.5hrs to do a full cambelt replacement start to finish.

It could be bad timing. I don't have the relevant specs in front of me to be able to confirm if this would be an issue though - but I'm fairly confident even one tooth out would be spelling trouble for the valves.

It sounds to me like a air leak, or vacuum leak issue personally.

Further details would help. Anything you can think of, it will all help. When you say its hardly moving, what do you really mean? Is it totally flat until the turbo kicks in? At what point in the rev range does the car come on boost and begin to rapidly accelerate? Is it holding boost til past 4,000rpm?

Is the engine making any strange noises at any point that are different to the noises you have come to expect from it? Is it like this all the time?

Have there been any fault codes recorded against the ECU?

[ASTOBBS]

are they a VGT on this model lee?

Sounds like a wastegate/ VGT issue could be the cause.

[Leeky]

When you had the engine trouble before, did it have any injectors replaced? If so, were they calibrated using Tech2 and the flow adjusted? That can cause bad power delivery as the ECU needs to have the injectors setup - you don't just replace them like older generation cars.

I was thinking a wastegate Andy, but usually that's down to a faulty spring or seal and leaks boost before its set vent pressure. That would give the opposite effect in that the boost would get lost as it ramps up.

e.g. boost wouldn't build up. It seems like it is according to the OP, hence ruling it out as a leaking wastegate at low boost would flood pressure out of it at full turbine boost pressure.

I'm not overly sure if this features a variable geometry turbo or not either mate.

EDIT: Both the Z19DT (120bhp 8v) and Z19DTH (150bhp 16v) feature variable geometry turbochargers.

Info:

The most important features of the Z 19 DT OHC diesel engine

8 valves
Common rail system
Multijet injection with up to 5 injection operations per operating cycle
CP1H high-pressure pump
Rail pressure of up to 1600 bar
CRIP2MI injectors
EDC16C9 engine management
Electric throttle valve module
Turbocharger with variable geometry
AGR cooler
Dual mass flywheel
Underbonnet main catalytic converter with oxygen sensor
or alternatively underbonnet main catalytic converter in combination with underfloor catalytic converter and particle filter (without oxygen sensor).

The most important features of the Z 19 DTH DOHC diesel engine

16 valves
Common rail system
Multijet injection with up to 5 injection operations per operating cycle
CP1H high-pressure pump
Max. rail pressure of up to 1600 bar
CRIP2MI injectors
EDC16C9 engine management
PDA system
Electric throttle valve module
Turbocharger with variable geometry
Hydraulic valve clearance adjustment
Roller cam follower
AGR cooler
Dual mass flywheel
Underbonnet main catalytic converter with oxygen sensor
or alternatively underbonnet main catalytic converter in combination with underfloor catalytic converter and particle filter (without oxygen sensor).

[ASTOBBS]

could be an electronic wastegate? Like with the ford TDCI engine? I agree on the point you would expect a wastegate issue to be as you describe. Needs to be looked at properly really with opcom/ scope.

[Leeky]

It does likely have an electronic solenoid controlling the actuation of the wastegate. Its pretty common these days, though despite having this DTH engine in my previous Saab I don't know a massive amount about its electronics as never had cause to learn.

I suspect Tech2 or Opcom would isolate that as an issue or not fairly quickly.

I had a little read up and I do wonder if the issue is due to an injector replacement not being programmed. We won't know much more until the OP responds though.

[ASTOBBS]

injector programming is only a flow adjustment though. Many people replace them without coding and don't notice a difference. I suppose if all 4 where changed, and say the original set had quite a high flow rate, then the replacements where at the low end of the tolerance scale, you might JUST have so little fuel that the engine could be gutless but it seems very odd to have no power at all.

Is it a manual gearbox?

[Leeky]

They're a little different on newer high-pressure direct injection or common-rail diesel engines. I believe GM use the same sort of systems as Ford (and others) where the ECU has to be programmed with the new injector codes once they've been installed, or they run like crap.

I remember fixing a few TDCi engines at Ford not long after they were launched due to warranty replacement injectors being fitted and not coded, and they caused hell for the customers, and for staff at the time. If memory serves me correctly I encountered similar issues with a few transits because even though the codes had been re-entered, they had been done incorrectly as the code was tiny, and well back in the engine bays. People weren't used to having to read the codes before fitting them and consequently ended up failing at reading them once installed.

The dealership even replaced a nearly new van one time because the customer was raising hell (rightly as well) at its constantly bad performance - I was tasked with investigating the issue, and found it to be a simple injector code error. 1 digit out was enough to make it drive like crap and unreliably, and once the new code had been entered to the ECU it was absolutely fine thereafter.

Another confusing issue was the way the tech was asked to enter the code using the diagnostic computer. I can't really recall it now, but the order in which you were presented to enter the codes was misleading - resulting in many techs entering the wrong code for the wrong cylinder, further complicating issues.

To this day I am uncertain if it was flow programming, or why the ECU had to know what the injector serial codes were, but I do know that changing them upset engine performance and the ECU knew if you had, and hadn't changed the code to match.

[ASTOBBS]

I've had personal experience with the TDCI engines, the reason they ended up being wrongly coded, is the injectors are programmed in firing order, not cylinder order, and the early ECU's had a habbit of 'forgetting' the codes.

It can only be coded to account for differences in flow, yes there may be differences in spray pattern between two injectors, but no amount of ECU tweaking will fix that.

We await the OP's response lol

[Leeky]

	Quote:
	Originally Posted by ASTOBBS I've had personal experience with the TDCI engines, the reason they ended up being wrongly coded, is the injectors are programmed in firing order, not cylinder order, and the early ECU's had a habbit of 'forgetting' the codes.

Aye, thats the one. Glad you knew what I meant though!